(Part 2) In Conversation with Becky Gibson, ARIA MVP

Evinced was thrilled to speak with Becky Gibson, an accessibility specialist and software architect whose career includes groundbreaking work on projects for ARIA, the WCAG 2, and Knowbility. Please find the first part of our conversation here. In part two, Becky discussed accessibility terminology, the potential of AI, and how accessibility is about everyone.

At Evinced, we’re committed to shifting left and making accessibility testing “just” another functional test. What are your thoughts on shifting left?

Yes – accessibility has got to start from design. Because the truth is, it’s much more expensive to fix something when it’s in development than it is during the design phase. We’ve talked about this for a long time in the accessibility space. 

The problem with shifting left, however, is finding good training. Plus, developers often don’t want to work on the old thing – we want to work on the snazzy new thing, right? Often we’re drawn to the latest, not going back into the weeds to uncover and remedy old mistakes. Going back to fix accessibility issues might open a bigger can of worms.

Looking to the future, with new technologies and AI hitting the market, what do you think is next for digital accessibility? Where do you see it going?

Well, it’s a controversial one, and it depends. If you put AI in a category of overlays, which I’ve avoided discussing, then you’re saying, “AI is bad.” But many experts think AI will improve. And I agree. 

My late husband would always struggle with the computer. He’d say, “you’re a developer; why can’t you fix this, these interfaces?” And he’d often say that someone would come around and reinvent the “whole web thing.” My husband passed away nine years ago, so quite a while, and the truth is nothing has changed. We haven’t evolved that much. We’ve added elements – we’ve added voice, which will continue to grow, but even that leaves people out. 

I fear relying on one technology too much. We’ve relied on vision to build the initial Web because we’re a visual species. And we depended on mobility to use a mouse. But that left people out. Voice won’t be the solution for the whole population, so there’s still more to do. 

You know, it’s frustrating for those of us who have been in the accessibility field for a long time, because now we’re like, why are we still doing this? Why am I still doing this 20 years later, right? What did we do wrong? How could we, as a group, approach it differently to get people to believe in assistive and accessible technology? 

This is why I now believe that it really has to come from education; software engineers, business leaders, and people in general need exposure to these issues much earlier. 

But, to answer your question, AI will continue to improve. And I know we’ll get better testing – which is the field you folks are in, right? 

What would you have done differently, looking back 20 years ago? 

I might have taken more interest in some of the boot camps. But even then, I tried to reach out to one, and Knowbility tried to reach out to someone building a web curriculum. We said, “let us help you; let us work with you.” And nothing happened. Other times I’ve offered to work with kids honing their web skills, I’ve heard crickets. 

The frustrating thing is that accessibility isn’t the “them” problem some people think it is. 

I always think, “you, too, could need this.” There may be macular degeneration as you get older. I’ve experienced hearing loss on one side as I age, and I do much better with a headset than listening to the computer speakers, and I use captions on Netflix. The headset I use was actually made for runners; they are bone conduction and provide another example of something made for one population that ends up serving many more people.  

Knowing how many people can benefit from assistive technology is essential because it ends up being everyone. When I speak on accessibility, I often use that Microsoft chart that shows the disability types and the permanent, temporary, and situational examples. It’s excellent to drive the point home. Accessibility is about everyone.

Lately, we’ve avoided the term “disabled” in favor of simply saying “users of assistive technology.” (This is not a knock on anybody, we honestly don’t know and are asking everybody we know.) What do you think about that?

I think it’s interesting because you could ask people with disabilities, and they all have different opinions. I saw Lainey Feingold give a talk, and first, she said “disabled people,” and then she addressed it. She said, “I know some of you have noticed I’ve said disabled, and sometimes I say people with disabilities. I tend to mix them up.”

Because some people feel one way and some people feel another. There are going to be different opinions. So, these days I usually ask. Giving people a chance to identify themselves is much better than trying to define them.

We could chat with you forever about your contributions to accessibility technology and how education and awareness need to change to help shift accessibility left, but we understand you’re very busy. So, one last question, slightly different from the rest: Becky, what do you wish people would ask you but don’t?

Well, that’s an interesting one. I guess it would be “What’s your biggest life lesson?” Really, and this isn’t specifically about accessibility, but I’ve been a widow for nine years now. I was the breadwinner, and we didn’t have kids, so I wasn’t financially devastated when I lost my husband. But navigating tough times is a lot about living your life within your means so that if disaster strikes, you aren’t devastated. And one of the things that I’d love to discuss more is how humans can prepare for the worst without being entirely negative. 

This practice can work for positive events, too. There was a woman who came to IBM when I was there. She was writing a documentary on Grace Hopper. She said she could take a year off and work on the film because she and her husband didn’t have the biggest, fanciest car or house. They had financial security.

And it occurred to me that if you’re living within your means and planning for a secure future, you could use that little nest egg should something – wonderful or terrible – come along. Of course, some people are financially stressed and have other burdens that impact their ability to prepare. But I would like to think and talk more about that: being ready for the good or bad that might come your way.

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Thank you so much for your time and insights, Becky!

In case you missed part one of this interview, please find it here.